The Death of E-learning
E-learning, but not how you’re used to it! Less noise, more candour. Interviews, panel discussions, retrospectives - every episode has something different! We talk to interesting people and ask some big questions - 'Is this the end of learning design?' - 'Can creativity and productivity coexist in harmony?' - but mainly, we challenge people to decide 'What aspect of e-learning would you like to see the death of?'
The Death of E-learning
Question Time 2 - E-Learning Boogaloo
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The Death of E-Learning team break the format! Luke, Stefan, Ana-Clara, Kirill, Graeme, and Saray all jump on the mic to dish out their hot takes from busting e-learning myths, AI's place in the industry, to battling short attention spans. Are they on the same page? Do they even see themselves as good learners? All this and more will be revealed!
Hello and welcome to episode 23 of the Death of E-Learning.
SPEAKER_03I'm Luke. And I'm Stefan, and we are back once more. Yes, welcome to the podcast, where we hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, we're not doing that this time. We're not? Nope. We're going straight in because we've got so much to talk about in this latest episode.
SPEAKER_04Oh, you're right. Yes, it's a special one because it was everyone who works on the podcast, the podcast team, all got together in a room in real life, apart from Kevin, who selfishly lives thousands of miles away, and we had a good old chat. So let's just get straight to it. That's right.
SPEAKER_03Let's go over to it right now.
SPEAKER_04Hi Graham. So what are we doing in this episode? Hello, Luke. We have got most of the Death of ELearning podcast members here. Unfortunately, we are missing our mastering God, Kevin Drake. But uh the rest of us are in one room for for the first time in a long, long time. Say hello, everyone. Hello. Hi. And we're sitting around a uh Zoom recording mic, passing the mic back and forth. Essentially, we're going to be answering some of our burning e-learning questions. Uh, I asked the team to send me one question each about e-learning, which is everyone's favorite topic. Uh who'd have thought of that? Who would have thought who would have thought on this podcast uh that we eventually find ourselves here? Um, yeah, essentially, I've got all these questions. Uh we're gonna share them with the group via uh a random generated um picker we've got online. I'll spin the wheel, we'll see what name it lands on, then we'll take that question and we'll give it to the group. Um we might not get through all of them. That's fine. It was just basically to save us some time. Six questions might be a bit much, but who knows? We might hit them all. And it's gonna be like the BBC question time audience where because we only have limited mics, everyone's gonna have to stick their hand up and we'll just get a mic to you as quickly as possible. Let's just get this get this going. I'm gonna spin the wheel. Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding. First question is from Anna Clara. And the question is Do you see a sustainable future for AI in e-learning? And will it eventually make our jobs obsolete? Of course, the first question is going to be AI. Uh, it's the biggest thing in e-learning since click and tap. Since click and tap. Um does anybody want to jump in on that question? Or shall I spin my wheel, which has all of our names on it? Oh, that might be a good idea as well. I'm spinning it.
unknownThis is easy. This is usually no use.
SPEAKER_04Anna. You can answer your own question. Street fitting. Right. Anna, this is down to you.
SPEAKER_00Oh, a very interesting question. Thanks, Anna, for asking this one. Um I think I have been very surprised how AI a few months ago wasn't, you know, I think I remember first trying AI and kind of saying all AI won't take over our jobs. It was very scarce. I was trying out the Mid-Journey app. And um yeah, I didn't really see a future for it. I thought it was just like a tool that could help us. Um, but I didn't, yeah, I didn't see it actually taking over any jobs. And I have to be I have to say that I've been quite frightened lately to see the amount of people actually use an AI. I myself have been guilty of trying it out on Photoshop Adobe. Yeah, I I don't know the exact answer to that question, but I have definitely been scared of how much it actually is taking over a little bit our worlds.
SPEAKER_04Which is why you asked that question. I tell you what, I know someone who has a really good answer about this because we were having this discussion the other day, Stefan, about how useful a tool it can be, but also how it is limited, and we need to remember that AI does not replace intelligence. That's right.
SPEAKER_03Please expand. My response is one of hope. My one of um from my experience using generative AI, it is an aggregator of an aggregator and regurgitator of information. It doesn't digest information and process it in context of their of its lived experience because it doesn't have one. It can't think, it doesn't comprehend. It's merely a summariser and uh it predicts what word it should say next rather than actually using any kind of intelligence in the traditional sense of human intelligence.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. You know, this brings in mind a discussion I had with a friend this weekend. It's not about e-learning, trigger warning. Um sorry, no, you can't. That's not where it's still relevant. And I was talking about how because at the moment I'm making a real effort to improve my skills with the bass guitar, and I was thinking that even learning um a musical instrument has been devalued somewhat because you can just press a button to come up with a a riff for you, for example. We were talking about this the other day, yeah. Yeah. Oh wait, was it you guys? Oh, that's so funny. Me and a friend. Me and this handsome friend were just sitting down. Oh okay, I'll just repeat what you told me. I I'd assigned it to someone else in my head. No, that was me. But it was yes, you were quite quite right to point out that AI wouldn't have thought to pluck the strings in the incorrect way and thus create slap as a way of playing. It wouldn't have broken the rules and come up with something new. And that is heartening for all of us to remember that we can still be the innovators.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. I think we have a raised hand over here from Sarah.
SPEAKER_01I really would like to talk about AI because I think it's been since three, four months ago, I've been paying the monthly subscription for Chat GPT. I was scared of AI at first, you know, thinking no, it's going to take our jobs. Yeah. And now I am excited. I've been using it. I use it for you can in ChatGPT what I've done is I've created uh custom GPTs. I've created one that is my personal tutor to learn JavaScript for creative coding. So maybe I wouldn't be able to afford a personal tutor for coding. But with this, for in this case 20 quid a month, I have a 24-7 tutor that is giving me all the information I need, homework, feedback. And I think I think AI is going to be here. If you don't learn it now because you are scared you will learn it in five years. Because so I don't think I think we've talked about this uh in some episodes, but I really think that AI is not going to take our job. Maybe it's going to modify them a little bit. Absolutely. Yeah. But what is going to take our jobs is people who use AI in their workflow. Yeah. So I think if you can hear me learn AI. What makes you say that? Because it's such a powerful tool that it's going to make you better. And faster, maybe also. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean in my case with AI, I can uh write uh emails, I can I don't know if you know how to use it because there's some you know there's science in knowing how to use it, so you still need a human behind it. Exactly. You know, yeah. I just think it's such such a powerful tool that if if people realize it's like once you start using it, using it correctly, using it to become better, yeah, is it's not going back.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I think over overassuming its powers is a mistake of not knowing how to use it correctly, and you will be found out if you try and do that as well.
SPEAKER_04I don't think we're very far away at all from job listing saying must be proficient in X AI tool, like you would be with proficient in XL, whatever it might be. I don't think that's far away, especially in our job, especially as the writers on our side, the the learning designers, learn learning architecturists. Um there is a potential danger that if we let this slip without learning to adapt to it, that um yeah, just the this the speed um that will be expected to produce all these items might outweigh the cost of uh unfortunately doing things from scratch like we have been doing. So I think we're just gonna have to learn and use it as a tool rather than be something to be scared of uh as a thing that will take everything over. It's just like leaning into it essentially and learning now as it as it's still building up in its infancy, even though it's getting better and better quickly, more more quickly than we thought it would. Um just getting even just playing around with it now is gonna make a big difference, I think. Um just talking to it in your spare time, you know. I do think the danger is uh leaning into it too much. Uh we've talked about this briefly just uh before this recording. We know and I know some friends who use it as like a sort of um search engine as a way for like research purposes, which is as we talked about probably not the best use because it is just predictive. Uh usually we know that a lot of this AI can be wrong where it's pulling its sources from, could be various various places and make assumptions. Um and you know, it's getting to the point where I we've all talked about how m infuriating it is to see the first summary in Google now being an AI generated response. That is not helpful, I don't think. You know, it's not it's not helpful to have that. I I think if you get uh you if you because that's just this doing the same thing, it's just pulling from X number of sources and saying, yeah, this is right or wrong. Um so I think we need to be be careful that it doesn't it doesn't take it doesn't govern our thought processes and we just trust it implicitly. Need to work with it. Kurill.
SPEAKER_02I feel like for creative jobs, AI will never take our jobs because it can only repeat what's been already done in the past. And AI in many ways, is especially in corporate levels, so far away. Even for graphic design, it's good let's say generating photos, but graphically like I say, illustration style, you know, you can't let's say choose a color that you want a specific one. You can say a shade of a color, which can be very limiting.
SPEAKER_04Next question spin the wheel again. It's Stefan. Hooray. We clapped. Uh I was not expecting that. Um this is the fanfare you finally deserve. Your question was what do you think you can do to make e-learning suck less? And let's see who's gonna answer this first. Oh no, I forgot about that. Saroi, what can you do to make e-learning suck less? Is this Saroi personally, Stefan? Yes, yeah, what can you you as an individual?
SPEAKER_01Obviously, it's going to be a big difference if you are doing the e-learning because you have to do it, right? Or because you are interested in the topic and you choose to do it. That would be, you know. So in the first case, I mean you can improve the design, you can make it engaging, if it gives value, you know it's okay, but at the end of the day, if you do it just because you have to, it's like everything in life. Uh but if you let's let's imagine that I am choosing a specific subject that I want to learn about. In my case, uh I like a little bit of theory, okay, and then practice. A little challenge which makes it engaging rather than just reading, and that's it.
SPEAKER_03The the challenge and the practice that you speak about, that's actually what you need in order to get the information to stick in your brain. That's why we have to apply humans need to apply what they've learned in order to remember it. So yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_01I think that's the difference between just consume it and interacting with it. Precisely. And the moment you interact with it, you become a part of the learning.
SPEAKER_03And the learning becomes part of you. Oh, it does though, it becomes part of you and your experience.
SPEAKER_00I think because obviously, um, for those who don't know, we have had a full day of podcasts and brainstorming and a lot of ideas being thrown. And I think one of the things that really made me reflect today is um how can we make e-learning suck less as an e-learning user? Is yeah, how to make it less isolating for the people, you know, how to kind of make it more engaging if I'm on my computer and having to do a whole week of e-learning, how can I make that more engaging for myself to actually communicate with other people, to just make it a little bit less, as I said, isolating and kind of bring that sense of community because I think it's really hard when you're doing something by yourself, but everyone around you in the same company is also having to do that thing, but there's no shared experience, there's no kind of motivation, there's no feedback.
SPEAKER_03I think what you are saying is you're talking about maybe making learning social, which is something that I spend an awful lot of my time talking about and actually doing because our platform has uh the capability of doing really, really good social learning where learners learners who go through the same type of same content, the same they process the same information, then take that and talk about it in the context of their either job or their life or their situation, whatever it is. And it just uh goes back to what Sarah was talking about earlier about practice. It it it makes it it relates it to the real world in the way that a static singular, what did you isolated and isolating piece of e-learning can't. So that's why I get so enthusiastic when I talk about social learning because I know that it adds a level of real world to it that makes people remember it better and makes it also less isolating and more interesting to um for for people to do it when they've got mates or colleagues to do it with.
SPEAKER_04You you learn through others, um typically you learn through what you observe, and if others are able to bring something new to the table. How much have we learned today in this room just talking about this podcast and what we can do to improve it? You know, everything we want to do to push the marketing, all this kind of stuff. This is a look behind the scenes, but how much have you learned just by talking about it? How how often do we say when we have our team meetings, when we have them in person, Luke, that um we get so much out of it? Just if if there's like one topic we want to talk about and we just we spend that out the half an hour just just talking about, not necessarily having actions we want to take away, but just by discussing it, you get you can learn and take away so much more uh you know to motivate you to make that change or to uh just to carry with you in what you're doing. So I think the idea just to discuss more. This the social learning theory just permeates everything. And I I'm a firm believer that can make things suck less. Keep it social. Keep it social. Hit me with another question, Graham. Hit me with your best question. Spinning again. Ding ding ding ding ding. Oh, it's Kyril's question. Oh, there's a go, they're clapping again. Kyrill asks, what are some common misconceptions about e-learning? E-learning in general? You look at me like you've never you didn't ask the question, like I was not expecting this, a follow-up question about my question. Yeah, e-learning in general. Cool.
SPEAKER_02You know, because different companies have different e-learning, different attitude to it.
SPEAKER_04Let's see who's answering it first. Graham. Crap. Um what are some common misconceptions about e-learning? Um I guess that it is a one-sized uh solution, like one size fits all solution. Is my my thought is like I think a lot of times companies will be like, we have a thing we need to teach, whether it's compliance or a certain process or whatever, and they say, just give them a course and that will change it, or just do the thing, and it does not do the thing on its own. It has to be I think e-learning has to be part of a wider solution, you know, it has to be part of the puzzle that makes that change, or do it just be a discussion point to to to bring in new processes, or whatever it might be, it needs to be something that is propped up by something else. Well, whether it's you know, um facilitation, whether it's other campaign materials, whatever, whatever it might be, I I just don't think e-learning on its own can change the world, even though um we would like to think it think it could. You know, it's our bread and butter. But I think being humble and saying we're just part of the we're part of a solution and doing what we can to help in that solution, and maybe what we can do to to shape it and help clients re recognize how they could integrate it into their systems or whatever it might be, that's down to us. But I think it's I think it's silly to say one intervention, 30-minute intervention on something is gonna change your organization. Uh I I just don't see it.
SPEAKER_01So I think a misconception that I also had, and when I talk to my friends, a lot of them work in in the health sector. When you talk or mention e-learning, it's like oh yeah, I just passed the course as quick as I, you know, and then answer the the questions randomly. So a misconception is that it's boring, and that's it, and it's boring. But I came across a really, really nice course that actually, Graham, you worked on it. We are not going to name the client, but it was such a good course. I think it's the first time in my life that I got hooked to the course because it felt like a game. I was I was uh learning, actively learning, and it was literally a game. I I was hooked, and that never happened before. So I think in my case, the misconception is that it's boring or it has to be boring.
SPEAKER_04Going to that wider point though, I'm really glad to hear that that's you know, I'm really I think that course is brilliant. I think it's the best thing I've been a a part of, and I think it's fantastic. Essentially, uh, we can talk about what it basically does, it's basically just teaching very basic computer hardware interactions, such as changing RAM modules or uh plugging in X cable to Y component or wherever it might be. But it's a simulation, so you actually have to do the things. Um, and we try to put in a lot of Easter eggs, a lot of fun little things in there, and try to make it as interactive and feel as uh tactile as the way we kept coming back to as possible. We've added a lot of sound effects, which is try to replicate the thick, the real thing as close as possible in this sort of 2D plane. It's very cool, but on that, this is the practical application of a bunch of learning that should have been happen should have been done by the learners before this, so it it really is it can teach, right? And I I've learned through the process of doing this, oh, what this thing does, and I think it's a good sort of um practical tool, but there's plenty of theory that's actually behind all that kind of stuff uh that is necessary in order to understand how it fits and everything else. It's not just the thing itself, you know, it's not just the the the the intervention to solve all the problems, it is part of it, and like I'm you know, I'm happy to say it's great, but I recognise still that this one thing won't change what they're trying to change, it's gotta be propped up by everything else culture, behaviors, whatever it might be. This is one part of the piece.
SPEAKER_02Personally, uh from personal experience doing it in like previous jobs is uh e-learning is easy and easier than let's say face-to-face. Easier to learn. No, it's easier to create to to not to create, but to let's say go for the course. Right. Okay. Cause uh it's I think a lot of people don't realize that you need a lot of discipline. to actually get you know, get the course, the message, the learning that is tried you know, to teach you in your company and how could that help you in your day-to-day job?
SPEAKER_03That's actually a a really nice jumping off point to my kind of common misconception that I was going to mention, which is that and this is more for people who cre who make e-learning, their misconception is that people care. That people really give a crap about the e-learning that they have to do because they do not and it's up to you Mr Mz or Mx designer to do it so that even if they don't care get they get meaning from it. And that's a I think that's a really nice challenge for us to to have and something to remember because a lot of people that many years ago certainly when I started out in this in this industry people came from the uh standpoint of I have bestowed upon these lucky learners a beautiful course that they are so gl lucky to to get to learn and and everybody on the other end was like what another half hour oh God don't oh so they couldn't have cared less so it's up to us to make it as good as it can be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah that's actually great Stefan because um Sariah stole my answer um but I think going off that note you know the the first actually misconcept that I've heard is it's boring but also that it's generic. You know it's it's kind of what you just talked about Stefan about that value as well and that meaning and we do have a previous episode which is about the LGBTQ plus community and how people are seen and I think a lot of the e-learning has been very generic in the past and hasn't been considered the needs but also how it's changing nowadays for you to actually see yourself in the e-learning and how important that is um nowadays so people can actually identify people can feel a bit more connected to the e-learning and yeah just the importance of that.
SPEAKER_04I'm interested what you have to say Luke I thought we were just about ready to move on but if you if you're interested you've not spoken in a while you gotta speak fine. Oh my misconception would be that e-learning is terrible I mean there's plenty of terrible but it doesn't have to be no and I had this with my aunt the other day who you know most people in your life don't realize what you do for work. Yeah and I had this conversation where she was like so so what is it you actually do and and I explained to her you know those those courses you do at work that you have to do every now and then you know on your computer and and then I saw the penny drop and I saw like the anger in her eyes she was like you do those you do those gonna leap across the table and attack me um there were yeah so many people's experiences of nothing but awful e-learning and it's not all awful it can be done really well but I understand that that is most people's experience so you could argue it's not a misconception but um we know the other side of the coin so yeah yeah yeah and I and I I used to this is something that we we talked about before in an another episode where there used to be this tendency to be like uh apologetic almost I used to I used to feel that way honestly when talking about being like oh I do this I'm sorry but now it's like I feel just at this point I'm comfortably like yeah I do this but I make it well and I've got I can you know I can show examples of that if you if I need to I don't feel like I need to justify everyone sit down I've got a presentation I've got I've got everybody I'm showing you everything I've got um but uh yeah no it's at this point I've probably just been like yeah it this is it this is it this is a thing that that needs to happen people at companies ask for this stuff and I'm good at writing instructional stuff and then when they swing at you you're now you're extra quick at ducking I'm extra quick at ducking got used to it yeah um next question yes next question what have we got uh we've got a few more questions I've already done three at this point question from Sarai Wait clapping herself over there right Sarai's question is what are the key elements that make an e-learning course not only educational but also memorable and impactful especially in the context of learners with short attention spans.
SPEAKER_02Kirill's answering that I'm I'm gonna be a bit biased but I'll say design because who would have thought I think if even if you look around the street like what you see in everyday life I think good design can sell a bad product and it can be memorable for that I don't know about everyone else but myself I find myself very visually remember things. You know for me it's easier and I think if you have the freedom I think we can make the impact that will actually you know have an impact in the person's job that we know we did the course for.
SPEAKER_04Yeah I will agree with the design but also um and I've obviously would love to hear the learn and designers' opinions here um but I would say engage in storytelling I think for me if there is a story if there's a narrative that is written really well I will be involved um yeah and and I'll add to that I think an important element is um relatable useful content so you can immediately see how this is going to apply to you um so making sure that something useful is at the heart of the e learning will make it engaging because if it seems too far removed from your daily life um or it seems inauthentic, generic yeah then it's not going to be very meaningful meaningful to you but if you if you take it and go I see how when I finish this and go back down to the shop floor or whatever it is that I'm doing I can use that then great and and one way to do that is video scenarios which we did with a uh Lloyd's banking group project um where hopefully the learners are able to leave that and immediately apply um lessons learned from those video scenarios to their to their daily work and the data we got back suggests that they are able to do that they're feeding back that they can't do that. So that's really heartening to see evidence of of when e learning is working like that.
SPEAKER_01Okay I'm thinking about especially people with short attention span and in the case of a general e-learning course I think in this case the thing that would make the most difference is the the way you present the text visually the hierarchy of the text so maybe if you take the most valuable nuggets of the lesson and you put it maybe in an illustrative way in the same way that when you read the newspaper you go for the headers and you just keep that if the thing you choose to highlight in text is actually the right thing you know the the little highlight of the if they just take one thing out of the course let it be the most valuable one.
SPEAKER_04That is one of the first questions um that I ask in in a in a client meeting when we when we're talking about uh working on a project when I'm trying to understand what they're trying to do one of my go-to questions always is if you could boil this down to one point that you take away what would that be? So don't forget forget about objectives or anything what do you need to what should they know by the end of this and that is usually a really good way of distilling down to the base level and just be like right as long as we can work from that then everything else can wrap around that make it as valuable as you as possible don't waste your learners time have respect for their time because usually they're just trying to cram in learning whenever they can it's very rare you have like scheduled time to do this e learning so they've got to you've got to make it worth it when they do do it. And to Saro's point about like things that are highlighted or in bold or made to stand out in some way it's amazing sometimes what is in bold that isn't actually that important. Yeah make sure it's the useful stuff that you really want to stick in people's heads.
SPEAKER_03Yes. A lot has been said almost everything that can be said has has already been said in the course format but if you think about taking those highlighted bits those key bits there's one that one thing that they need to remember in that paragraph paragraph and you send it to them in a campaign repeatedly and make them interact with it. So I'm talking about uh reminders about nudges after the event about a spaced practice campaign for example that is also a really good way of engaging learners with information that they've seen but maybe didn't sink in maybe it forgotten maybe they've forgotten about this bit and you you repeat it to them we can thankfully take information back to people in their messenger apps in Slack in MS Teams etc and how we can we can pop them up or send them an email depending on what format is correct. So the the the key the good thing about this is that you can target the audience when you know they're up for it when you know they're not busy when you know they in the in the format that they that they like that they understand. So it's about making it right for your audience.
SPEAKER_02Just to add to your what you say I don't know if that's what you're referring to but but repetition really reminded me of uh American 50s ads they were very repetitive because they wanted to you know convince the consumer that's what they should have I think that there was a colgate advertising in the 50s that was very repetitive repetition is definitely one absolutely yeah that's it's part of that with along with practice as well yeah repetition repetition next question next question oh it's from me Graham it's me my question is are you a good learner what things do you do to make learning easier for yourself I'm gonna spin the wheel Stefan are you a good learner I think so great next question I think I'm a good learner as most people are if they care about what they've got to learn.
SPEAKER_03So that's um that's my way of being a good learner as well when I when I don't care to make myself care to find something that I care about in the subject anything at all that I can latch on to. Luke you and I have been discussing this in the in the reference of a project but it's just find something you care about and attach your brain to that so then you give a shit and you are oh here's the explicit and um you're more likely to care about it and learn it, remember it, want to practice it, form a habit of learning it there we go.
SPEAKER_04Yeah yeah I'd build on that and say that I'm a good learner if um I am feeling in the right headspace to learn and one of the things that can help with that is knowing when I need to take a break. That is so important um I'm not one to sit in a two hour lecture and take it all in after half an hour I will need a break and I think just being mindful and being aware of um under what conditions you learn best and therefore trying to make that happen for you will will make you a better learner and I know it certainly does for me. So try and pay attention to when my brain is dying I used to think that I wasn't a very good learner despite being in this role which I think is funny uh considering that's it's a profession but I realized in terms of like learning skills from my job it over time yes like it when when I and I realized oh actually I am I am good compared to what I what I was when I first started six and a half years ago didn't know anything where I am now you know I consider myself a professional right in this um and obviously I had to learn it was over a long period of time over experiences. So you are learning by doing right and and being able to adapt and um change your course based off of what you've done before all this kind of um just skills building um I think that really does tell you a lot about if whether you're a good learner or not is whether you can adapt and and grow versus you know shrink and wither away. So in that I do think I yeah I I am but I think in the other in the other side when I say I I'm not is when like there are skills outside of work that I want to be able to do. I used to really struggle I was like there's so many things I want to I want to learn like a language or you know an instrument or whatever but I was just like oh I I can't be bothered. I worked all week and now I want to not do that. I want to see friends family I want to just chill out read a book play some video games whatever it might be to chill out and I used to think that was you know just that was kind of it um and I have learned some skills but um there you know like I I I've learned instruments I've I've been able to apply myself to to different hobbies and interests but what I've realized after uh recently um as uh I attempt to learn to play piano is that for me it's all about baking it into my routine is what works best for me. So now in the morning I make sure before every every day before I log in I play the piano for at least 10 minutes. I set up on my desk there's no way around it I've I'm like okay I've got to play that in order to unlock my day right that's the way I look at it's like uh in order to move on with my day I've got to do this and I sort of force myself and now it's got for the first few weeks and now it's got to a point where I don't have to think about it. Now I can just sit behind the the piano and do my thing. So it's baked in my routine that's what's made me made my life easier to as a learner that you formed a habit that's what you've done. Yeah yes that's what that's what reminded me that's what reminded me based on exactly what you said I formed a habit I habits can be formed if if if you care enough they can be formed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah so oh my god okay I do like to learn uh because it makes me feel like I keep moving forward and growing I think a lot of people relate learning with school or the academic life and that it's not you know they then they have like negative feelings about learning but if you approach it as a way of keep developing yourself you know it's really really enjoyable because it really transforms you in a way that you only understand when you experience it in my case Graham had a great point also for instance in your case if you are learning piano I think it's really important to have the piano out there you just need to switch it on and play. If you have it in a case then it's not going to work to have the the habit is really important but imagine that you are learning something on screen right like something that is a bit more theoretical or something I think practice in my case I don't know javascript coding practice is really important but also in your possibilities you know to take it out of the screen for instance in my case the old old school technique of pen and paper taking notes doing my own little notes and everything it really helps me to and it's not it's not close to typing in the computer it has to be pen, paper and it really it helps me absorb it a lot and also I don't know patience is really important I think it's key enjoying the process and also to choose something you really care about that you want to learn. Not learning something just because you think it's going to be cool or because everyone else is doing it.
SPEAKER_02Just choose something that you are really interested in and I think that is it's going to sound corny but it's also really it's um I how you say self-care you know it's a way of self-care I prefer to have a more hands-on approach to learning so let's say for all the Adobe uh websites you know Photoshop Illustrator I taught it all myself via like tutorials and just sat down and and that's it's a bit similar to with Storyline that software that we use at Learningpool to create some of the courses it was very new software never it's a little never done anything like that but because I had the opportunity to just sit down and mess around with it and had people around me who I can ask the questions I think it really helped me with you know get learning it so fast but at the same time if it's something not related to my profession and I have to learn I'll start wandering off my attention spam is just so short and I'll just start thinking about topography the design of it it's like there's a rule uh when I was at uni you only should have like I think it was seven or eight words if you have a super long sentence on one line you're not gonna just gonna lose the attention spam and I'm one of those people I'm just like you lost me.
SPEAKER_00I also forgot to mention and I think I was just thinking about actually knee learning that I did recently where I was learning a new program and for me it really helped and you know I think just again just touching back on what we've said before but that practice how it's important to do that practice but in a e learning setting to have your cameras on on a video call that weirdly helped me actually have more attention and focus on what was going on. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well having your camera on yeah having my camera on so it seems to be accountability is quite important to you then Luke we got time for one more question do you think uh yeah let's make it a quick one punchy punchy well luckily it is the last question and it's from yourself Luke let me spin the wheel see who's answering it well we need to know what it is first I'm answering it okay perfect your question was what's your earliest e-learning memory sorry what's your e lear Oh my what's your e-learning it's late in the day I want to go home what's your earliest e-learning memory was it a helpful and positive experience or the reason you still have trust issues and can't sleep at night great question Graham I I recently realized that I what I thought my earliest e-learning memory was was wrong. I worked in um Waitros supermarket when I was 16 and I remember doing the e-learning and it was awful and it was very dated and you had to if you got a question wrong you had to re-watch the whole video all over again. It was a long video about fire safety and then if you got one thing wrong watched it all again again again which I didn't really mind because it meant I got off the shop floor for a bit which is quite nice. However my sister recently reminded me that my grandparents had a computer game that we played and it was only e learning disguised as a game I know I thought the game was it was you were an ant and you were trying to get to some food at a picnic but it was basically teaching you how to set coordinates and how to set something to travel to something. I think it was basically teaching computer skills um but under the guise of a game and um I mean I didn't think it was very interesting at the time but it's just interesting looking back on that and reflecting that actually that was e-learning and e-learning starts young as they say.
SPEAKER_01I do have two first memories of e-learning the first one I think is when I was very new to the UK I came to do my Erasmus the thing is I was so overwhelmed and scared by the whole situation that I do remember that I was doing put in front of a computer you have to do this. Okay but I was so scared by life that I don't really remember you know but I think that was my very first experience of actual e learning but then my first proper memory is when I discovered these um online learning platforms like I don't know imagine uh in my case domestica skillshare all this kind of yeah and I remember my very first ever course was an illustration one of an Spanish illustrator called Oscar Lorenz really cool work and it blew my mind because suddenly I was like are you telling me that I can learn whatever I want when I want and suddenly I can have these skills you know it blew my mind it made me so excited you know and yeah that was my first and second memory mine was when I was around 16 so I got really my first job I was I graduate I graduated from school going to college and then I wanted first job for Christmas period.
SPEAKER_02It was at a famous UK retailer for technology. I won't name them because they're quite bad um and there was like I think it was like six or seven people and we were put in this room on the second floor with computers and we were told do this without explanation I just came out of school I was like I think my generation is like one of the last who did like the old way like I didn't catch that computer way sort of generation we still had the books to to learn from and I was like what it the hell is this and there was a bit of a questionnaire because no one read anything uh there was a questionnaire that everyone got stuck on and we were quite because we were hired as temps for Christmas period and we were kind of like quite strictly told that you know you have to do this otherwise you can't go onto the shop floor but none of us read the content because we were not interested in it.
SPEAKER_04But eventually after many many chies many many swearings at he had it we got it done but uh I'd say yeah that was that sounds very similar to Luke's waitress experience really everyone everyone yeah I think every everybody who starts in retail at like a you know around around that age or that their first retail job will have some sort of awful e-learning scar. How should you speak to the customer like this?
SPEAKER_03Hello Madden or like this go away yeah option B wrong that's rude for the customer oh that customer won't be coming back oh no I remember a computer coming with a copy on CD ROM of the Encyclopedia Britannica and I just thought there is a whole lexicon of history just on this tiny little CD and I just used to love the the amount of knowledge that was compressed. The internet existed then but search and search engines weren't around in the same way that as as they are now so I just remember that in enjoying just flicking through the encyclopedia Britannica online and loving learning from that.
SPEAKER_04You've just reminded me that we had a CD ROM well you learnt all about the human body and it had a mentor called Seymour Skinless he was a he was a skeleton. Ah okay um and yeah I learned all about different organs I mean they were all very inaccurate colours the brain isn't green um but yeah e-learning it's been with us always guys and forever let it stay that way what a nice end to this session thanks everybody right so that was us in Nottingham the whole team together discussing our questions and what we thought. Yes what did you think Link Luke?
SPEAKER_03It was lots of food for thought what was your favourite bit specifically Stefan I liked the um the discussion it was quite an extended discussion about AI and the impact it's going to have on well it was really everything but specifically the learning and development industry I like that we quite naturally gravitated towards hope and excitement and posit positivity especially Sarai she d she dove in she threw herself into the um into generative AI got a subscription to one of the services and she said basically go do it embrace it run with it the only mistake you can make is ignore it and be afraid of it. Don't do that go jump in and I just thought yeah couldn't couldn't be more correct.
SPEAKER_04Yeah and I always listen to Sarai on these things because Sarai is such a curious creative spirit always trying out new things and uh trying to develop her skill and she's always got book recommendations and it's just a source of inspiration to us all. So thank you for joining us Sarai and thank you everybody who joined us on that day in Nottingham for what was a really good chat and a really useful productive time. If you don't recall um Stefan said in the last episode that we used some of this time to plan um and brainstorm episodes of this podcast for next year. So we actually are going to do lots of things so stick around for that.
SPEAKER_03Yes we um we hope you'll tune in you'll listen to us again next year and also if you've got any thoughts on this episode please do leave us a review or drop us a line at death of elearning at learningpool.com. It is still our email address and we love hearing from you.
SPEAKER_04You look like you were really concentrating when you said that you like what is our email for the Death of eLearning podcast what what could it be?
SPEAKER_03What could it possibly be?
SPEAKER_04It's uh death of eLearning at learningpool.com of course if you have any e-learning gripes that you want to get off your chest like Leanne did in the last episode send in your voice notes too and um we can be your agony aunts for that and you'll feel better hopefully okay let's wrap things up for today my name is Luke Smith I'm Stefanegger see you next time take care lovely was I recording was I recording I was
